Diane said:

My associates and I have observed that most people need to vent or talk about their distresses and upsets to help discharge their negative feelings about themselves, others, the situation, the world, etc. before they feel like appreciating anything.

Therefore we also reserved several several emails including ventingzones@gmail.com and ventingblogs@gmail.com so they can keep talking and writing until they feel better. These are for negative thoughts that cannot be simply ignored. If the negative energy is not properly discharged when no one is available to listen, it could result in spreading more negativity to others. Of course, if one can afford it, they can also talk to their psychologist or psychiatrist.

There are people who do not want to go for professional help for good reasons. Therefore another constructive use of properly designed websites could be for self-healing and self-empowerment. We have reserved such websites for future development if possible. Then more people can have an alternative safety valve to release their frustrations when no one can listen attentively to them until they are emotionally healed from distresses and negativity.

ABCabc nonprofit also sponsors a number of online coaching emails accounts to assist people with problem solving after they have released their negative energy and feel ready for practical problem-solving. Online coaching is another way to assist people when they are willing to change how they are thinking about something or someone. When they realize they have the power to change their thoughts about a situation, to see the situation differently and thus change how they feel about themselves and the situation, that is another way to empower people to remove some of their unconscious guilt and self-caused unhappiness and frustrations.

It is often empowering to individuals for them to discover that their happiness and peace in mind do not necessarily require a change in their physical circumstances or change in the behavior of another person. Enlightened people are aware that they have full control of how they think about the other person and thus how they feel about the other person, the relationship and themselves.

Sometimes we invite people to experiment with us to list all the things they admire or like about the person they are having problems with in the relationship. With coaching and reframing, they can become more aware that the person they are having problems with are, from another viewpoint, a blessing because they present the opportunity for a person grow and practice changing how they think about the situation or other person and thus make progress in personal growth and self-confidence which are blessings. So "bad" things can have good outcomes depending on how we respond to the "bad" events. Most people only learn through pain. Their life will be more joyful when they can learn with joy instead. That is the way of giving Gifts of Appreciation, the way of friendship.

Our unconscious ego/fears normally will resist any expression of appreciation to others. It is very difficult to be humble, to tell ourselves the truth, to be courageous, open and responsible for our misperceptions. Most people will unconsciously project their negative feelings to others. By making others wrong, blaming others, the ego of most people under 200 level of energy, will feel better, relatively speaking. They feel better to be right by unconsciously perceiving others as wrong or "unjust".

Therefore, according to Dr. David R. Hawkins, one's attitude (condemnation or appreciation), emotions, perceptions, thoughts and processes are all related to one's level of awareness. One's level of consciousness is the cause. One's attitude, behavior and choices are the effects.

From this and other research, my associates and I suggest that one strategy is to encourage people to appreciate, regardless of how they feel. If they consistently choose to appreciate and not condemn, no matter what, over time, they will increase their level of consciousness. They will change their habit of what they focus on, and thus how they feel about themselves, their relationships and their situation. Since things are interactive, when they change, others often also change also.

This is similar to the approach of "do it" and you will feel it...for example, if a person stretched out their arms wide above their head, put a big smile on their face, behave like they are happy and excited consistently, soon, their body may get the message that they are happy and not depressed. Their action sends a message back to themselves that they have the power to change how they think and behave, and therefore how they feel.

Simultaneously, of course the person can analyze the possible factors within themselves that may be discouraging appreciation from others, and that is excellent for self-understanding and increasing awareness of what they can do to change.

In this regard, it is important not to focus on how the OTHER person can change because one is then giving one's power all to the other person. So if they don't choose to change, then does that mean you cannot find anything to appreciate? Does it mean that it is all their fault that one cannot find anything to appreciate?

Of course, it is very useful as a group to come up with a list of factors that might be discouraging appreciation because we can use that information as a guide for self-examination if we are unaware of how we are being and what we are doing that discourages appreciation from others. All these approaches are valuable to increase our understanding of this subject.

One reason often mentioned for why most people don't express appreciation to others is because they don't receive any appreciation from others. Chicken and egg situation, which goes first. This is why we encourage our members to go first to start the process. By doing so, they will feel better and they will experience their power to make a positive difference and contribute to a happier day for others.

The point is for people to practice LOOKING for things they sincerely appreciate or like or admire and not take anything for granted. If we can help people to change their unconscious habitual focus of attention, we have made a meaningful contribution to their ability to achieve and maintain joy, friendship and prosperity.

I've set up a workspace where we can all list / add "factors (for neutralizing ;)" at Possible factors that might be discouraging appreciation

:) nmw

As unique vantage points of the self-creating and self-transforming function of the Whole, we are all potentially poised to relate to and interact with one another with great empathy and appreciation.

Appreciation is our way to relate and interact with others in a way that beckons others toward realizing our potential, and draws forth their other potentialities of creativity, intelligence and capability.

Much of our innate capacity for appreciativeness, in all its forms, is currently lying dormant and unused in us. This is because we are currently unaware of the power and capabilities we already intrinsically possess, and also of our true co-self relationship with one another.

There is a specific factor that has been preventing us from being aware of, being able to access, and being able to use the potentiality for appreciativeness that we intrinsically possess; effectively keeping us from being able to use much of it in our lives and work.

This specific factor is the false identity that is programmed into us while we are growing up. This false identity typically comes from specific cultural environments that our current biological instruments happen to get born into.

However different these cultural environments may be, they all work similarly in that they make us believe, from very early in our lives, that we are potential victims of a variety of dangers. And this victimhood orients us fearfully and defensively toward most of our lives, maintaining us in a perpetual struggle to survive against one or more of these dangers. In effect this victimhood tends to relate more acquisitively and exploitatively toward both others and toward nature.

Here are a few of the well established dangers faced by different groups of us:

1. economic failure,
2. social disgrace,
3. followers of other 'truths' or 'values',
4. the blind and mighty bacterial, viral, geological and climatic motions of Nature.
5. Mighty institutions that control our lives.

Our prevailing programmed identity as victim makes it much more difficult to be appreciative, because appreciation involves activating the the true symbiotic unity we already intrinsically share with one another.

(moved workspace to top entry)

Ravi Arapurakal said:

As unique vantage points of the self-creating and self-transforming function of the Whole, we are all potentially poised to relate to and interact with one another with great empathy and appreciation.

Appreciation is our way to relate and interact with others in a way that beckons others toward realizing our potential, and draws forth their other potentialities of creativity, intelligence and capability.

Much of our innate capacity for appreciativeness, in all its forms, is currently lying dormant and unused in us. This is because we are currently unaware of the power and capabilities we already intrinsically possess, and also of our true co-self relationship with one another.

There is a specific factor that has been preventing us from being aware of, being able to access, and being able to use the potentiality for appreciativeness that we intrinsically possess; effectively keeping us from being able to use much of it in our lives and work.

This specific factor is the false identity that is programmed into us while we are growing up. This false identity typically comes from specific cultural environments that our current biological instruments happen to get born into.

However different these cultural environments may be, they all work similarly in that they make us believe, from very early in our lives, that we are potential victims of a variety of dangers. And this victimhood orients us fearfully and defensively toward most of our lives, maintaining us in a perpetual struggle to survive against one or more of these dangers. In effect this victimhood tends to relate more acquisitively and exploitatively toward both others and toward nature.

Here are a few of the well established dangers faced by different groups of us:

1. economic failure,
2. social disgrace,
3. followers of other 'truths' or 'values',
4. the blind and mighty bacterial, viral, geological and climatic motions of Nature.
5. Mighty institutions that control our lives.

Our prevailing programmed identity as victim makes it much more difficult to be appreciative, because appreciation involves activating the the true symbiotic unity we already intrinsically share with one another.

Dear Ravi,

Thank you so much for sharing this important insight and explaining it in a very elegant manner. You provide a lot of food for thought. Your generosity is very much appreciated.

With appreciation, Diane

I think we have listed alot of factors now.

Maybe we should start working on prioritizing them?

Just a friendly reminder, even though there may be many factors which might be discouraging appreciation, nevertheless we have the power to choose NOT to allow any or all of these factors to become justifications, reasons or excuses for NOT choosing to appreciate....

For example, many people have ample factors or justifications for failure. However if you study the people who succeeded against all odds, they did not allow or permit those factors to stop them, therefore they succeeded despite their handicaps or obstacles.

Their beliefs may have played a critical role in shaping their response. If they believed they cannot change, then they cannot change. If they believe they can never forgive the other persons for what they did in the past, then they will keep suffering unconsciously because of this belief. Their energy meridians are blocked and they will remain at a lower level of energy than if they were able to choose to believe they can change; they can appreciate the opposite viewpoint as well. After all, it is only a thought. Since it is our thought, therefore we can change our thoughts and thereby change our life. This is my belief and I guess this is why, like a bumble bee which did not believe it cannot fly, therefore it just flew, despite what the logical calculations stated.

In fact, I like to remember this belief when I strongly disagree with someone: I now choose to believe that what he says is right, and the opposite is also right because I choose to be happy rather than be right.

If it were easy to express our appreciation for others, it would not be much of an accomplishment. Only because it is not easy in this culture, therefore whoever can choose to do 500 small appreciations, they will earn their own respect and our respect and appreciation for their significant accomplishments and achievements.

If we believe only Love is "real," because we define "real" as only what is eternal and unchanging, then all the apparent factors are unreal, in that they will change, they are only temporary. We can think about them as our destiny and impossible to change, or we can think about them as opportunities for personal growth.

Our main asset and wealth is our time and attention. We need to consciously choose what do we want to invest time and attention on, i.e. how best to invest our "wealth and power." If we choose to invest only in what is real, then we will become more and more wealthy in terms of health, wisdom, abundance, love, joy, friendship and prosperity.

Some things may be fun to play with, but the end result will always be "isn't that awful." Most bad news and gossip have this conclusion, no matter how much time we spend on them. If I know this is the conclusion already on some topics, I make another choice on where to invest my attention and time.

Sometimes we spend our time and attention on things that really "do not matter" in terms of strenghtening our personal power (our level of awareness and impact on humanity), becoming a better friend to others, developing personal qualities that will benefit ourselves and others and thus strengthen our ability to maintain mutually beneficial relationships, creating significant value for ourselves and others by taking appropriate risks, etc.

Sometimes we feel we "just don't have enough time." Actually God is very fair, all of us have 24 hours, no more and no less. The real issue is how to choose to invest our time and attention.

If I were a professor at the university and needed to publish in a journal and the selection of articles to be published is determined by peers who appreciate the very fine distinctions which may not matter in my personal or business world, then I will definitely have a good reason to work on prioritizing the factors. It may also be fun to do anyway.

Otherwise, if I or you are short of time, please remember as a priority, that we need your help to explain the reasons WHY it is beneficial to ourselves, our relationships, our projects, our friends, our seniors, our children, our community and our world to choose to honor and appreciate each other at this time and to take the next step to post your appreciation on the APPRECIATIONBOARD in Omidyar.

I have been extremely busy at work, therefore I have not been able to write about this issue of what is the big WHY behind the Appreciation Project. Therefore I would be grateful if you could take the lead and start this new thread on "WHY appreciate? Against all odds, the human spirit endures."

Your help in giving priority on the "WHY APPRECIATE" topic is a very important investment for our future. Or better yet, why not JUST POST a few more appreciations for whatever or whoever, and express your creativity, humor, joy and friendship for all the people in your life, taking nothing for granted! After we finish that priority, then we can all come back to this thread and have fun together here, if you please.

Diane,

You say:

"Just a friendly reminder, even though there may be many factors which might be discouraging appreciation, nevertheless we have the power to choose NOT to allow any or all of these factors to become excuses for NOT choosing to appreciate...."

Not quite true. There are many factors, such as the first five I had proposed, that people have little choice about. Because these are already established and very deepseated, they exert a lot of subconscious influence.

It is almost impossible for many Muslims to appreciate Jews, Christians, Hindus or Buddhists. Their identity as a Muslim compels them to regard these others being lost in a false belief, and as such, as inferior people.

Of course, they can force themselves to APPEAR to be appreciative, but such appreciation would only be superficial, not an authentic outpouring of appreciation from their hearts.

This is also true of non-Muslims who believe in the superiority of their respective religious or ideological or physical groups over other groups.

Diane,

You say:

"After we finish that priority, then we can all come back to this thread, if you please."

The quality of our appreciation for this thread is manifesting earlier than I thought possible.

Under these circumstances, do suspend it.

Appreciating Ravi...

I appreciate the opportunities Ravi's comments provide for me to think about my choices in a specific context. Please do NOT take anything I say personally because this is just a dream I am having and I thank you all for being part of my dream.

Ravi, you have been so kind and generous with the best of intentions to raise aspects and perspectives I have not thought about before and you have been willing to play a difficult role to give me the opportunity to choose and think about and explain my choices and values in a specific context. Through this process of conversations all of us are getting to know where each of us are at this moment, and the only constant is change.

I love to change through the process of conversations and debate. Sometimes I may disagree with my first response because I recognize that I currently have an unconscious habit of disagreeing before I take the time to agree and explore someone else's perspective or where they are coming from first.

It takes a person as courageous, brilliant, stimulating, tactful and understanding as Ravi to make this conversations for understanding a fun and productive experience for all. So thanks again!

With gratitude, Diane

Ravi Arapurakal said:

Diane,

You say:

"Just a friendly reminder, even though there may be many factors which might be discouraging appreciation, nevertheless we have the power to choose NOT to allow any or all of these factors to become excuses for NOT choosing to appreciate...."

Not quite true. There are many factors, such as the first five I had proposed, that people have little choice about. Because these are already established and very deepseated, they exert a lot of subconscious influence.

It is almost impossible for many Muslims to appreciate Jews, Christians, Hindus or Buddhists. Their identity as a Muslim compels them to regard these others being lost in a false belief, and as such, as inferior people.

Of course, they can force themselves to APPEAR to be appreciative, but such appreciation would only be superficial, not an authentic outpouring of appreciation from their hearts.

This is also true of non-Muslims who believe in the superiority of their respective religious or ideological or physical groups over other groups.

Response:

Thank you Ravi for giving this example which I had not appreciated before. I agree with your point, in this specific context and there may be many others that I did not think about, it would be very difficult to express appreciation authentically and if they were to try to do it, it may be just superficial.

Thanks so much for explaining your point of view because until now, I did not understand where you were coming from on this point. This is a great lesson I am reminding myself to take the time to do so in the future.

Fortunately, research shows, we do not need 4 billion people to appreciate each other, we only need a very small percentage to have a critical mass, like a tipping point.

Once we have a small critical mass, the powerful energy will automatically shift the consciousness of humanity and everyone will benefit from the new awareness. This has been demonstrated in many scientific research experiments (like the "100th monkey," "Tipping Point" etc.) which I could summarize later on.

Our goal is to identify the "early adopters" and ask them to start doing it. There is a predictable pattern that any innovation goes through. For example, when telephone and the airplane were first invented, not everyone immediately saw the need or value. Most people did not believe in an innovation during the first stage.

However. after a small percentage of people have adopted an innovation and have demonstrated the usefulness and value to a larger percentage of people, and the news continues to spread to a larger and larger percentage of the general population with time. This cycle and process have been observed for most innovations. Of course, some innovations may not have spread widely. So like most things, there is the test of time.

Thank you Ravi and Diane for the thought-provoking exchange of ideas. I appreciate your discussion in many ways. Like what Ravi said, when there are fixed beliefs, whether from religious beliefs or delusional beliefs, people may have some difficulties with giving appreciation and/or receiving appreciation to others. It is difficult to give what we do not have.

I think the concept of the tipping point, Diane, is a positive way of reframing the essence of appreciations. Creating a critical mass of enhancing the value of human beings also leads to a more altruistic majority of the world. And that would certainly fuel many more good things to happen in this world.

Both your thoughts help me integrate my own thoughts about the significance of appreciations even more. Since it would be hard to give what we don't have, perhaps, giving honest and sincere appreciations to people not appreciated much in their lives, whether they believe it or not, will help with creating that positive critical mass towards more Love in this world. This idea is beneficial for both the appreciator, the appreciatee and the third or more observer of the appreciative interactions.

To learn something, most of us need to toddle first. Then we have faith that we can walk so we toddle, and before you know it, we are walking indeed. I think no different from expressing our appreciations to people. Though eulogies are necessary to help heal the grief of many with their losses, I truly uplift the concept of expressing our tributes and sincere appreciations to the people in our life journeys while they are alive. The process of not leaving anything said or undone with our loved ones.

I tend to agree with many issues here like our belief systems , environmental factors,the way we were brought up,etc. As is the nature of a human mind we are conditioned. Therefore we tend to do many things on an auto- mode this hinders humanistic trends and therefore a big failure when it comes to appreciating others.Human beings will die trying to defend their views( what they belive in) however mistaken they might be.In this regard i suggest a cure which is tolerance.For us to appreciate others whatever they might be engaged in we must tolerate their views, opinions and standpoints.This requires that we for a moment suspend our judgements and give up being right.

I have experienced lack of appreciation so many times in my life and the only plausible reason that i have given so far is that people don`t understand me or i`m not like "them".But with time i have come to the conclusion that perhaps i don`t know good enough about people ,their isssues and their belief systems to just disregard them.

Another thing is that we tend to think that when we appreciate others for who they are we are like giving out so much that we are at a loss in the long-run.When a small boy, my mama would tell me to apprecioate my brothers may be by sharing my food or sweets but i always rejected the idea.My thinking was that this was going to mean less for me.I hated this and i could only do it when frced to do it.Appreciating others is like sharing out something.We often feel that we don`t have enough to share with others and hence the tendency of being mean interms of appreciations.

For human beings to be able to appreciate other fellow beings whole-heartedly probably there is a need to recognise the abundance of the "Good" in the universe.There is unity in diversity.Life is the same everywhere.If i need to be appreciated for who i am then, why should i not appreciate others for who they are?

John, this is beautifully said! Addressing the lack that people feel is a huge part of it. Thank you for expressing that. B

I have been reading recent posts about appreciation with a growing concern. However, as I wasn't yet sufficiently clear about what was troubling me about them, I thought I would wait and see.

Then John said something that helped me to realize what was troubling me most about the implications of the appreciation initiative.

Before I say outright what I saw, let me first share again, what John wrote, as his comment triggered the realization:

John said:

"I tend to agree with many issues here like our belief systems, environmental factors,the way we were brought up,etc. As is the nature of a human mind we are conditioned. Therefore we tend to do many things on an auto- mode this hinders humanistic trends and therefore a big failure when it comes to appreciating others. Human beings will die trying to defend their views( what they belive in) however mistaken they might be. In this regard i suggest a cure which is tolerance. For us to appreciate others whatever they might be engaged in we must tolerate their views, opinions and standpoints. This requires that we for a moment suspend our judgements and give up being right."

What I am going to say may not sound appreciative of what John said. So I am going to say here, outright, that I could not have made this realization at this time if it were not for his comment, and that I am grateful for that opportunity to understand something important that was eluding me up until that point.

I noticed that John agreed and acknowledged that social conditioning was a major cause why many of us cannot be our true selves, and why many of us cannot orient ourselves appreciatively toward one another.

According to him, here we were, suffering a real problem, the problem of being conditioned during our childhood, a problem that keeps many of us from being appreciative; a serious problem that makes us unhelpful, if not destructive, to oneself oneself and to one another.

So it was a surprise for me when John suggested his cure: tolerance. Tolerance is a low-key manifestation of appreciation. It is not as direct and generous as appreciation, but nevertheless involves acceptance of one another, of what we say, of what we do, and of the effects these behaviors generate in our world.

After all, as the problem was that many of us were being conditioned during our childhood, and as this conditioning was generating deficiencies in our tolerance and appreciation of other, there must be much that is false and wrong in such conditioning, and it must surely a priority for us to find ways to get rid of such conditioning!

How can tolerance possible CURE this key problem of conditioning, I wondered? How can our acceptance and appreciation of one another even begin to help us realize a) that we are conditioned, b) that our conditioning contains errors that distort our interpretation of what is going on, c) that our misinterpretations MISdirect what we say and do to one another, d) that we must commit to rooting out as many of these errors as possible, and e) we must find or develop sustainably effective ways of getting rid of it.

In other words, how can we posibly cure ourselves by ignoring and by-passing the cause of our deficiencies in tolerance and appreciation?

A cure for anything must be whatever uproots and removes it very cause or origins. We say someone is cured when the very disease that caused all one's symptoms has been removed. Removing the symptoms (lack of tolerance and appreciation of one another) doesn't address the problem that causes it. Indeed, it might delude us into a false security of believing that we are taking curing action, when in fact, we are actually avoiding and by-passing the very cause altogether.

We all live in a real world. But it is also a comprehensible world. There are real causes for a vast number of problems and ills. And the best systematic way we have developed as a species, to address any of these problems and ills we suffer, is to find out and root out their causes. This method alone has doubled our species' life-expectancy in a single century, after millennia of suffering much greater vulnerability to early death and disease.

Conditioning is one such cause. It is not natural to any of us and none of us were able to choose the unique kinds of conditioning we each received. But we can be sure it wasn't there when we were born, and can also be certain it was already in place by the time we grew up and had to develop our own responses to the people and situations we found in our lives.

Because conditioning was put into us, and didn't come with our genes, it is not intrinsic to us, and we should also be able to get it out. Anything less than this cannot be a cure. Cultivating tolerance in the face of such a powerful cause is relatively a palliative, a temporary suppressant of the deficiencies of conditioning.

We live in a very richly varied world. Some things are true, and some things are untrue. Some things are healthy, and some things are deadly. Some measures are effective, and some measures don't work at all. Some things are beautiful and graceful, and some things are ugly and clumsy. In a world where there are many such real differences between positive and negative, and which differences we can all become able to see, and become able to see better as we grow wiser, it cannot be right to obscure these differences in the things we think, the things we say, the things we do, and the things we bring about with tolerance and appreciation for everything.

To navigate such a world, we already have a compass. This compass is the gradually increasing body of reliable knowledge about our world and about ourselves. We should not be blind to the differences between the genuine positives and negatives in our world and in ourselves, that our compass affords us, by adopting a stance of universal tolerance and appreciation that diffuses these differences.

Causality only flows one way. Causes are always upstream, and effects are always downstream. It is only in a world where this difference in causality is obscured to us, that mows everything down to a relativistic noise, where, because there is no more real meaning, there is only behavior, and as there is only behavior, all behavior is relative, and must be tolerated and appreciated.

In short, tolerance and appreciation are natural to our true selves. our conditioning corrupts our natural selves and distorts our interpretation of our lives, and of what other people are say, doing, and effecting. Rather than encourage people to apply tolerance and appreciation in order to obscure the real differences between the positive and negative among what people say and do and effect, let us instead learn to focus on the difference, work hard to eliminate the negative by finding their sources and snuffing them out, as what will be left will be what is positive and good.

I don't want to sit here and discourage you. If any of you find this response offensive, just say so, and I shall leave it in peace.

Again, than you John, for opening my eyes, if not for the same reasons that B thanked you.

~Diane T.~ said:

<see top>

Hi Ravi et al .... now Ravi I have looked up your bio and you sound like an interesting guy... but dont you think that all this is terribly over intellectualised? People just need to learn to love eachother dont you think?

[Edited by group owner: nmw on 06 Feb 2007 05:41 PST: removed top post, provided link instead]

Heather,

You ask me:

"don't you think that all this is terribly over intellectualised? People just need to learn to love each other dont you think?"

Heather, no, I don't think that people just need to learn to love each other. I also don't think this is overintellectualized, let alone terribly overintellectualized.

We cannot learn to love one another because loving one another is already our original and authentic way of relating with one another. We are already designed to love one another because we are all already the same single Social Being operating from myriad vantage points and physical human forms. We are already intrinsically like different arms of the same single body, we cannot BUT cherish, nourish, caress and nurture one another.

Unfortunately, all's not well in our true nature. There's a fly in our ointment. Our intrinsic capacity to love and appreciate one another that we already possess, is corrupted at the conceptual level of our being, through outdated conditioning received during our childhood. So, in order to love one another as we were already designed to do, we have to UNLEARN our faulty conditioning, that prevents us from loving one another as we are already intrinsically capable of doing.

Our world is a rich and complex place, and our human functionings, which involve the mechanisms of sentience, emotions, knowledge and imagination, are even more complex and rich. This is because humans are the universe's own and only known feedback and response mechanism within Itself. Bad data, in the form of outdated conditioning during childhood, is distorting our feedback and perverting our responses to one another, and our actions in the world. This makes us appear to be intrinsically unloving and unappreciative, but this is an aberration caused by this conditioning problem.

In short, Heather, I don't think that loving one another is something that can be 'learned'. It will happen spontaneously when the bad conditioning that distorts our interpretations of ourselves and our experiences is removed.

This removal of this outdated data is the task that lies before those of us who are lucky enough to be able to sense that we must love one another, and are serious about making it possible.

Very well said both Ravi and Heather. I could not improve on that one bit. Even the conditioning and forgetfulness and entanglement is love. When we embrace that, well...there we are in love all over again!! :-) It seems to me you're both saying the same thing. The elaboration from different perspectives helps different aspects of ourselves to integrate it, so I say keep it up!

B

Ravi Arapurakal said:

Heather,

You ask me:

"don't you think that all this is terribly over intellectualised? People just need to learn to love each other dont you think?"

Heather, no, I don't think that people just need to learn to love each other. I also don't think this is overintellectualized, let alone terribly overintellectualized.

We cannot learn to love one another because loving one another is already our original and authentic way of relating with one another. We are already designed to love one another because we are all already the same single Social Being operating from myriad vantage points and physical human forms. We are already intrinsically like different arms of the same single body, we cannot BUT cherish, nourish, caress and nurture one another.

Unfortunately, all's not well in our true nature. There's a fly in our ointment. Our intrinsic capacity to love and appreciate one another that we already possess, is corrupted at the conceptual level of our being, through outdated conditioning received during our childhood. So, in order to love one another as we were already designed to do, we have to UNLEARN our faulty conditioning, that prevents us from loving one another as we are already intrinsically capable of doing.

Our world is a rich and complex place, and our human functionings, which involve the mechanisms of sentience, emotions, knowledge and imagination, are even more complex and rich. This is because humans are the universe's own and only known feedback and response mechanism within Itself. Bad data, in the form of outdated conditioning during childhood, is distorting our feedback and perverting our responses to one another, and our actions in the world. This makes us appear to be intrinsically unloving and unappreciative, but this is an aberration caused by this conditioning problem.

In short, Heather, I don't think that loving one another is something that can be 'learned'. It will happen spontaneously when the bad conditioning that distorts our interpretations of ourselves and our experiences is removed.

This removal of this outdated data is the task that lies before those of us who are lucky enough to be able to sense that we must love one another, and are serious about making it possible.

Ravi, this is quite informative.We also, as a matter of urgency,need to RE-LEARN the ways of love that are inherent in us."Love like you would like to be Loved" should offer a platform upon which the values that issues from love would stand on.

Heather,

You say:

"We also, as a matter of urgency,need to RE-LEARN the ways of love that are inherent in us"

Consider the word RE-LEARN. It means learning again, something one has forgotten or neglected.

The implication is, that we had already learned the ways of love, had forgotten or neglected it, and therefore need to learn these ways again.

If I were to rephrase your sentence above, I would replace just one word. I would replace RE-LEARN with RELEASE.

What is the difference between RE-LEARN and RELEASE? RE-LEARN, as I explained above, involves educating people about love. RELEASE, on the other hand, involves UNLEARNING the conditioning that was programmed into us during childhood, so that the ways of love that are inherent in us may be released.

In short, Heather, because there is something alien (the conditioning) that is confining the ways of love that are inherent in us, the task before us is to REMOVE what is confining the ways of love, so that they may be RELEASED in our relationships, our deeds and in our lives.

I might provoke the discussion just a tad further on the intellectual end and make reminder of that little itty bitty part of ourselves (maybe not so itty bitty in the final analysis!) that perhaps LOVES being lost so that it can find itself all over again in its eternal game of hide and seek.

I find my intellectual mind gets great relief when just the right words deliver it from its chatter back to the light, which creates a mind path where it can greet its feeling partner. My direct feeling partner-in-being does not always understand this. It identifies with Heather and wonders, "Why not just go for the feeling?" That part of me falls into the appreciations with greater ease, which is of great inspiration to the mind. But the mind, to its great folly, is usually quite taken with itself. Unattended and without relief of intellectual understanding (that it resists for all it's worth because it thinks it's already got it), it tries desperately to catch up as it drowns in its senseless, arrogant and usually self-destructive mind chatter. :-) This seems to be one of the natural dynamics between the forgetful mind and heart. The only thing that I found that releases the tangle is to embrace and appreciate it all.

B

Thank you, Ravi, Heather, B.

I appreciate Love.

Love is all. Each day I discover this in my life journey. The thinking, the feeling, the darkness, the light. Love is all. The mind, the body, the soul, the spirit. Our best, our worst, our joys, and our sorrows. Love is all. The awareness, the denial, the conscious and unconscious. You, me, them, us. Love is all.

I appreciate Prayer and Meditation.

I embrace the divine energy that prayers give to all. I embrace the clarity of mind, abundance of heart, the joy and serenity of spirit that meditation brings. Let us welcome our mind chatters, fears, hurts, and look at them with compassion and curiosity. Universal spirit. One. Love.

The more I learn and know, the more I don't know. I appreciate the mystery and beauty of life and love.

Elizabeth thank you for this discussion. Your work in medicine sounds fascinating and can be said to be truly putting LOVE into ACTION.

Many people take years to not only find their vocation but to be able to contribute to the world and to others like this.

Ravi Arapurakal said:

Heather,

You say:

"We also, as a matter of urgency,need to RE-LEARN the ways of love that are inherent in us"

Consider the word RE-LEARN. It means learning again, something one has forgotten or neglected.

The implication is, that we had already learned the ways of love, had forgotten or neglected it, and therefore need to learn these ways again.

If I were to rephrase your sentence above, I would replace just one word. I would replace RE-LEARN with RELEASE.

What is the difference between RE-LEARN and RELEASE? RE-LEARN, as I explained above, involves educating people about love. RELEASE, on the other hand, involves UNLEARNING the conditioning that was programmed into us during childhood, so that the ways of love that are inherent in us may be released.

In short, Heather, because there is something alien (the conditioning) that is confining the ways of love that are inherent in us, the task before us is to REMOVE what is confining the ways of love, so that they may be RELEASED in our relationships, our deeds and in our lives.

Gosh did I say that . dont remember. Anyway although I agree that human beings come into the world programmed to love from the beginning as innocent children this soon gets knocked out of them. I dont know if I believe that people are basically good. I think as we mature we get faced with many choices and our hearts become aligned with the choices we make. I try to choose to do Good and not Evil because my heart is aligned - or tries to be - with God.

Loving also often involves personal sacrifice because the intersts of another may not coincide with ones own.

However I bring to the table a quote from the OT prophet Jeremiah "The human heart is deceitful above all things."

In other words we all have the capacity to deceive not only others but ourselves and have to consiously work on authenticity and remain conscious of the state of our hearts.