Also, among many things I hope <Ned> become the first instance of an online social network meets multiple real world spaces mashup. There will be a Ned/Portland office by 9/1...and a Ned/Thailand coop in the near future as well. Working on some other possible physical spaces in other locations, but too soon to delve into really.

Looking forward to the "we shall see" ;)

Mark wrote:

The ned.com social network platform will launch with (nearly) the same underlying software and user interface (UI) as o/net. Current o/net members fearing losing track of other members and friends should find ned.com a familiar and welcoming place.

Can you say more about this decision ie is ned's primary membership O.netters and you want them to experience something familiar? What drawbacks do you see in this choice, and what enhancements would you make? What, precisely, are you using, what is the hosting situation, and who is your site administrator?

Thanks for creating this opportunity to extend ned beyond o.net!

>>Can you say more about this decision ie is ned's primary membership O.netters and you want them to experience something familiar? What drawbacks do you see in this choice, and what enhancements would you make?<<

Yes, the initial membership will consist primarily of o/netters for sure and I think a transition into something familiar will be pleasant. One drawback to the choice is those that venomously dislike the software/platform/format will likely go elsewhere...but I guess that would make sense now. Enhancements will be up to the community, the board of advisors within the community (which will help make decisions), and of course available funds to make said enhancements. I thought there was some good ideas here to explore and sure there will be many others. Ideas which can be built into the software to make more actions and more things happen would be a very good thing.

>>What, precisely, are you using, what is the hosting situation, and who is your site administrator?<<

Ned will use the newest release of the omidyar.net source code made available 7/9/07, it will be administered by Jim Carroll (thnx Jim) and hosted at the facility of his choosing...that's his bailiwick.

>>Thanks for creating this opportunity to extend ned beyond o.net!<<

You bet. From o/net to oh, ned I suspect there are many, many more interesting times ahead. Again, I really think this is not an ending, but an evolution. (evolution being not just Ned of course, but other good things as well)

Christina said >>Moving all of the LiA content to ned.com could be a workable idea. Mark, can you clarify on whether your plan is to suggest replicating/moving this entire community to ned.com or will you be using the code to create a site with a more defined and/or different focus?<<

Whoever wants to move over would be welcome, given they are pleasant and abide by whatever community/board rules that are setup.

I'd love to see each group be very, very focused on making real things happen in the real world. Taking action. Personal action. Group actions. Groups collaborating. Focus on action. Sharing what works. Sharing what doesn't. Experimenting.

There may be an initial limit of sorts to the number of groups that may be set up by any one person. I like the idea of a temporary cool down account pause if two members start too get into a overly heated negative argument.

Mark Grimes said:

>>What, precisely, are you using, what is the hosting situation, and who is your site administrator?<<

Ned will use the newest release of the omidyar.net source code made available 7/9/07, it will be administered by Jim Carroll (thnx Jim) and hosted at the facility of his choosing...that's his bailiwick.

How will you use it?

The same way as here?

Who will decide whether/what to change?

Will you make any guarantees that the site will remain hosted at ned.com (e.g. for X years)?

>>How will you use it? The same way as here?<<

I'm not sure. There'll be no need for a Ned Group, that's for sure. To a certain degree the way I use it depends on what I'm working on or who I'm trying to help I guess. In short, one way I'll still use it is just like it’s my digital desktop, and other members collaborators...much like I do now.

>>Who will decide whether/what to change?<<

Community/board

>>Will you make any guarantees that the site will remain hosted at ned.com (e.g. for X years)?<<

Sure, acts of God/lightening/floods aside, more than 5, less than 100.

For clarification purposes Jim is doing work to do the Ned install on his own time and not on Omidyar Network's time.

Thanks -- sounds really intriguing!

:) nmw

This sounds like a great plan, Mark. Will there be transition tools to carry over full conversations, links to workspaces, etc?

I like the idea of a temporary cool down account pause if two members start too get into a overly heated negative argument.

Any chance you could introduce flags like in craigslist? I'm picturing an "Acknowledged" flag that allows us to acknowledge those heated negative ad hominem blaming flaming posts, rather than resist them.

If more than 5 people clicked the "Acknowledged" flag, the post would be moved to a parallel thread (same thread title except with the word "rant" appended), where the people could continue to blast away if they wanted, without hijacking the main discussion.

I'd love to see each group be very, very focused on making real things happen in the real world

I am with you here. At the same time, small paradigm shifts often cause more change in the real world than giant actions.

When Jimmy Carter was mediating between Sadat and Begin at Camp David back in the 70s, the talks broke down and they were getting ready to leave. Carter spent the last day talking exclusively about his grandchildren. Something clicked, and it led to that famous accord.

http://www.medaloffreedom.com/An warElSadat.htm

I like the focus on action (remember when I tried to get everyone to change their thread titles to "TAKE ACTION: ..."?). At the same time, other kinds of conversations can sometimes create the foundations of breakthrough action.

Interesting conversation going on about Zaadz at facebook. I see the new Ned space as a place for stuff to really get done. Zaadz is more the place to get to know new people, methinks. Zaadz actually isn't interested in the action, which I think is great, because it means they're focusing on the relationships. And we can do our work in places like Ned and elsewhere, that provide the tools we need to get the work done.

Mark,

This is wonderful and very generous (as always) of you.

Do you see the NED platform being run by you or if selected for the transition space by the tranisition board being elected here?

Will members own the site? As in have the ability to elect representatives to make decisions for the community. Or will it be like O.net with NED "LLC" calling the shots?

NMW said >>Thanks -- sounds really intriguing!<<

Serendipity is in the air, or rather serendipitree

Tom said >>This sounds like a great plan, Mark. Will there be transition tools to carry over full conversations, links to workspaces, etc?<<

We'll see what Jim can slather together in such short order; something should be live next week sometime.

David said >>>I like the idea of a temporary cool down account pause if two members start too get into a overly heated negative argument. Any chance you could introduce flags like in craigslist? I'm picturing an "Acknowledged" flag that allows us to acknowledge those heated negative ad hominem blaming flaming posts, rather than resist them.<<

Good idea, something along those lines I suspect. Maybe something called a Chill Out button, ode to John Lee Hooker, I'd like Burning Hell too, but that might be just a tad too negative.

David said >>I like the focus on action<<

Yep. Yep. Yep.

Ted said >>Zaadz actually isn't interested in the action, which I think is great, because it means they're focusing on the relationships. And we can do our work in places like Ned and elsewhere, that provide the tools we need to get the work done.<<

Will share a funny story about Zaadz and their "application process" at some time in the future, but I agree with that Ted says.

Julie said >>This is wonderful and very generous (as always) of you. Do you see the NED platform being run by you or if selected for the transition space by the tranisition board being elected here?<<

Thank you. The site is being hosted by Ned, and there are currently 15 members on the board of advisors (all said yes over the last 24 hours without hesitation). I suspect there might be some crossover with the 15 Ned board of advisors and the five on the o/net transition board.

Julie said >>Will members own the site? As in have the ability to elect representatives to make decisions for the community. Or will it be like O.net with NED "LLC" calling the shots?<<

Members will own their own words, that’s for certain. Will the board of advisors become a more formal board of directors? I think we'll see how that works out and what that might entail, but it would not surprise me if that were to happen.

Hopefully the focus of ned.com (and the brand) will be about the people and organizations in it and the great things they are really making happen on a day to day basis. Hopefully saying one is a "member of Ned" will eventually come to mean something good to people.

Will NED charge for membership?

Now I liked this

http://www.frederation.com/meet. php

where I know the Web, Data and Wordsmith "Freds".

You might try a "Nederation". ;-)

Maybe more radical, and yet actually quite practical, would be to create your own "semi-private" Domain.

Dot Ned.

With your own domain server etc etc: not "Closed" = "Dark" like a proprietary network or "Open" = ICANN Top Level Domain and all the bollocks that goes with it (I know, I tried applying for one) but BOTH.

ie only NED members can use Dot Ned addresses, but anyone who signs up to the NED domain user agreement can be a Member....

Mark Grimes said:

Hopefully the focus of ned.com (and the brand) will be about the people and organizations in it and the great things they are really making happen on a day to day basis. Hopefully saying one is a "member of Ned" will eventually come to mean something good to people.

>>Will NED charge for membership?<<

It is likely there may be some form of membership fee, that if/when they occur they would be entirely optional.

>>You might try a "Nederation". ;-)<<

LOL.

>>ie only NED members can use Dot Ned addresses, but anyone who signs up to the NED domain user agreement can be a Member....<<

I could see many interesting possible things that could happen with yourname@ned.com member email addresses.

"Whoever wants to move over would be welcome, given they are pleasant and abide by whatever community/board rules that are setup." .... Hmmm???

I'm creating a community space with both public and private areas -- and in the private areas you will be able to create your own forums, blogs, wikis, polls, ... without having to worry what the definition of "Pleasant" means :)

With all due respect Mark -- you have used the coercive powers of negative feedback -- more than any other user here -- in an effort, I suspect, to keep things "pleasant" here :)

And that's not my opinion -- that's just a fact.

So, wadr: I would be very skeptical about your "pleasant"(ness) standard -- which, quite frankly, sounds rather patronizing.

In contrast: I'm exploring an entirely new paradyne in social networking:

I categorically disagree with this patronizing concept of a "one-size-fits-all" -- pleasantness standard, or some vague notions of "community/board" rules, when in fact -- NED seems to be based on a rather closed -- "invitation only" -- system.

My tolerance for dissenting voice -- right or wrong -- has always been much higher than your.

And I design my communities accordingly -- not to be a mirror image of what I happen to believe -- but allow people to exist -- in both a public, as well as private space, and a user's private space -- would be like their own back yard:

And they can even elect to "block" Harry Lyme -- if they want to :)

They can control "membership" --in as liberal or as restrictive a fashion as they want to, and still enjoy a full range of collaborative tools -- without worrying about "politeness" standards -- within their own private "Group" (just like you can in your own backyard:)

The "Group" in effect, can be look at as a small (or not so small if it becomes popular) -- "Neighborhood" -- with it's own standards and member rules -- just one tile -- with it's own distinct character -- within a larger "Community" mosaic :)

And -- since I also have the IT chops, along with this vision (and also with the help of Brad) -- this concept of mine -- is not a "pipe dream" -- the functional plumbing is substantially in place today :)

Try it yourself:

http://exom.harrylyme.com/

Register for membership (an email address is required, but you can get a spare one for free at yahoo.com google, or msn)

Then under Create Content: Create a new "Group" for yourself -- and see the degree of choice you have -- even today at this early stage :)

The site itself, is still rather a mess -- we are just "kicking the wheels" of the functional infrastructure -- which is holding up rather well.

Well -- I gotta go. When I get the chance -- I'll set up a dedicated thread on this option :)

And I won't be using the latest ver of o/net software -- it's conceptually too limited, and inflexible to implement truly ambitious dreams :)

Mark Grimes said:

Christina said >>Moving all of the LiA content to ned.com could be a workable idea. Mark, can you clarify on whether your plan is to suggest replicating/moving this entire community to ned.com or will you be using the code to create a site with a more defined and/or different focus?<<

Whoever wants to move over would be welcome, given they are pleasant and abide by whatever community/board rules that are setup.

I'd love to see each group be very, very focused on making real things happen in the real world. Taking action. Personal action. Group actions. Groups collaborating. Focus on action. Sharing what works. Sharing what doesn't. Experimenting.

There may be an initial limit of sorts to the number of groups that may be set up by any one person. I like the idea of a temporary cool down account pause if two members start too get into a overly heated negative argument.

I applaud your efforts Harry, and expect to see some o/net members migrate to harrylyme.com as well. And I sincerely hope you (with the help of Brad) do build something that helps make some great things happen in the world.

:) Thanks Mark! hehe, but while I have figured out a few things about hacking thru stuff, Harry is way ahead in the site development game than I am,

but because you are a friend, and because I do believe that you are going to reach success at what-ever you set out too, I feel the need to add to Harry's critique a bit, and honestly Mark, imo you have but one flaw that may eventually bring you down, you have far more positive things that will lift you and those around you! :) but the demon that is getting you is that you still have not grasped the concept of "Open Space" yet, you tend to align to the select few, when the answers lie with the whole (everyone), and when you even play with the idea of paying membership, you are pushing away the masses, if you need money ask for contributions but don't exclude either mechanically, financially or thru elitism or innuendo, if you can step back for a moment and see that truth only lies within the whole, it will be the greatest step you have ever made.

Thnx Brad, I do try my best to embrace everyone...and will honestly keep your advice in mind during this change.

I wish you the best as well Mark, and it's not an either or decision. Further, there is a lot about the NED concept that I like -- a certain degree of structure and focus is required -- and I also like the idea that -- in order to give -- you have to be willing to put some chips of your own -- in the community pot :) That's good stuff :)

And say Mark: did you hear about Herzog's new movie -- it promises to be a good one (based on one of my favorite documentaries of his: "Little Dieter Needs to Fly")

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lit tle_Dieter_Needs_to_Fly

Mark Grimes said:

I applaud your efforts Harry, and expect to see some o/net members migrate to harrylyme.com as well. And I sincerely hope you (with the help of Brad) do build something that helps make some great things happen in the world.

Hey, I wish you and the new site nothing but the best too.

Yeah, I added Rescue Dawn to my Netflix list just recently after seeing the preview. You gotta check out I Like Killing Flies too if you have not already, it is just a great documentary...one of the best I've seen in quite a while.

Mark, who all is on your ned.com "the social network" advisory board?

You are too modest Brad :) You epitomize an adage that I always felt was true -- but found that I could never embrace fully -- owing to my ego (to paraphrase here): "It's amazing -- what you can accomplish -- if you don't mind who gets the credit..." :) -- and it's too bad that Pierre (I don't blame Thomas -- for it was truly, never his call) didn't get the "message" : for, if the truth be told -- omidyar.net -- it's evolution -- as a "community" -- was always designed as a marketable-product -- from day-one: it was Pierre's "Gift" to "us" -- Top-Down -- and one-way... :) -- but, how often did Pierre attempt to "communicate" -- with his strongest critics (he paid poor Thomas for that role :( -- and the true reason why, Brad, that he spent more time -- "gracing" norbert (not a bad guy) -- over you and your efforts: well that's simple: for to incorporate your many fine suggestions -- would "Validate" -- your contribution -- to the Omidyar design :) -- and so he could, therefore, not take full credit for this "existential-product" -- which could have been something -- far more than it's initial design -- if only Pierre could have shared some credit -- from the "wisdom" -- that bubbled-up -- from the "community" below :)

"It's amazing -- what you can accomplish -- if you don't mind who gets the credit..." :)

and far better than I can -- Brad Byrne said:

:) Thanks Mark! hehe, but while I have figured out a few things about hacking thru stuff, Harry is way ahead in the site development game than I am,

but because you are a friend, and because I do believe that you are going to reach success at what-ever you set out too, I feel the need to add to Harry's critique a bit, and honestly Mark, imo you have but one flaw that may eventually bring you down, you have far more positive things that will lift you and those around you! :) but the demon that is getting you is that you still have not grasped the concept of "Open Space" yet, you tend to align to the select few, when the answers lie with the whole (everyone), and when you even play with the idea of paying membership, you are pushing away the masses, if you need money ask for contributions but don't exclude either mechanically, financially or thru elitism or innuendo, if you can step back for a moment and see that truth only lies within the whole, it will be the greatest step you have ever made.