Pierre, I certainly appreciate someone with your values and resources paying attention to these things.

It might well be that the Internet is the last refuge for democracy... let's keep it alive.

There are some vexatiously litigious individuals who have already managed to set some lousy precedents here in the UK, indeed there are some who appear to make a living from it, this is partly due to some sloppy isp's not bothering to defend silly cases.

I know of an ISP who created a separate legal entity to provide the Usenet service to his customers simply to avoid the risk of a litigious individual having anything of value to sue.

Whoa.

Most of my work is supporting online communities of patients and caregivers. These lifesaving communities simply could not exist without the fabric of "online speech." Patients and caregivers in these communities often pass around and comment on the words of others.

Notes from other patients. Recommendations from physicians. Info from medical abstracts. All of this gets circulated around and commented on...and ultimately gives the community an amazing strength. Everyone is smarter than anyone. And in a healthcare-related online community, that translates into saving people's lives and improving quality of life.

...so this recent news is particularly troublesome to me. :(

http://washingtontimes.com/national/20041201-114750-6381r.htm

Tenet calls for Internet security

By Shaun Waterman UNITED PRESS INTERNATIONAL

Former CIA Director George J. Tenet yesterday called for new security measures to guard against attacks on the United States that use the Internet, which he called "a potential Achilles' heel."

"I know that these actions will be controversial in this age when we still think the Internet is a free and open society with no control or accountability," he told an information-technology security conference in Washington, "but ultimately the Wild West must give way to governance and control."

The former CIA director said telecommunications -- and specifically the Internet -- are a back door through which terrorists and other enemies of the United States could attack the country, even though great strides have been made in securing the physical infrastructure.

The Internet "represents a potential Achilles' heel for our financial stability and physical security if the networks we are creating are not protected," Mr. Tenet said.

He said known adversaries, including "intelligence services, military organizations and non-state actors," are researching information attacks against the United States.

Within the federal government, the Department of Homeland Security has the lead role in protecting the Internet from terrorism. But the department's head of cyber-security recently quit amid reports that he had clashed with his superiors.

Mr. Tenet, who retired in July as director of the CIA after seven years, warned that al Qaeda remains a sophisticated group, even though its first-tier leadership largely has been destroyed.

It is "undoubtedly mapping vulnerabilities and weaknesses in our telecommunications networks," he said.

Mr. Tenet pointed out that the modernization of key industries in the United States is making them more vulnerable by connecting them with an Internet that is open to attack.

The way the Internet was built might be part of the problem, he said. Its open architecture allows Web surfing, but that openness makes the system vulnerable, Mr. Tenet said.

Access to networks like the World Wide Web might need to be limited to those who can show they take security seriously, he said.

Mr. Tenet called for industry to lead the way by "establishing and enforcing" security standards. Products need to be delivered to government and private-sector customers "with a new level of security and risk management already built in."

The national press, including United Press International (UPI), were excluded from yesterday's event, at Mr. Tenet's request, organizers said.

Some people might say that it is ALREADY bad to quote presidents, dictators or clowns (pick your favorite).

Other people don't seem to worry about it.

In a related news story, has any noticed that resignation had become the latest fad?

Did I leave out any tangents here?

Good point: I'm against censorship too -- lets do away with libraries! (there's absolutely no readson to give the chosen authors a foot in the door and/or establishment money).

What an ignorant fool.

The Internet is not a society or a place, it is a global communication medium. It is as much a threat to America as letters and telephones.

Terrorists use the Internet and the phone and letter and they talk to each other.

By the same token we should limit access to TV, books, newspapers, telephones, hand signals, writing and speech to those who the government approve as well.

How would Mr Tenet would like to enforce this? cut out tongues, chop fingers, and burn out eyes? Cut phone lines, refuse postal mail, firewall the entire USA from the rest of the world.

There is a threat from hackers, viruses, trojans, and the like. None of these, to date have been associated with terrorism or an attack by one country on another, although I guess the CIA are fully ready to use these and have developed all the tools and skills to mount such an attack. (Who says the CIA are not the terrorists). They may have working viruses ready to be released. Indeed it would not be unreasonable to think they could have viruses sleeping in the source code of operating systems waiting to be awakened on their command to do their bidding. (okay probably not in open source OS's)

Big Brother is watching us, we need to erode Big Brothers powers and not let him get any stronger. The war on terror is not helping us do this, it is helping Big Brother take away our rights and grow stronger.

BTW

The best way to protect the world from Hacking, Virus and Trojan attacks is to have diversity, if we had a healthy variety of systems instead of a mono culture then we would be more safe.

Bruce Denney said:

What an ignorant fool.

Mr. Tenet has his issues, but more security on the Internet is understated to a degree. Give him 10 years on the speaking circuit and I am sure he will have some misgivings. Many companies just don't get it. I personally like the idea of my healthcare provider required to have a firewall, or my stockbroker not allowed to sell my email address. Even a public company not brewing up their stock price in chat rooms. As near as I can tell, Yahoo sold my personal email and pager information all over the planet a few years ago.

There are limits, and I fully expect EFF and others to work with the governance part.

One cannot overstate the problems here with free speech. But having met a previous head of the CIA and have worked in the directorate chain, it is up to organizations like EFF, ACLU and the public that will truly determine the course. Can't say I like everything GreenPeace does, but I like them. It is important to support organizations that keep our governments and governance in check.

It is not the CIA or any government entity.

Having attended numerous State and Diplomatic conferences related to free speech, the only place capable of genuinely censoring it is China.

People need to understand that not everything is on the Internet. We generally don't get too far blasting our leaders, government or individuals. Sometimes the minority or the majority doesn't win. Sad but true. There are situations where Public good is seen as more important than the will of the people and it all comes into balance we hope.

I find it frustrating that my thoughts and those of others are typically attacked with words many see as hostile sometimes.

Not everyone is wrong, but not everyone is right. it is important consider that the text doesn't resolve a complete idea each time.

I have no problem with them legislating that people must take care of my data, I have no problem with them legislating that locks must be on all external doors and that they must be used.

He is not talking about a firewall on your brokers Internet access he is talking about a firewall between the USA and the rest of the planet. What China is doing at the moment.

So when the firewall is shut and I can't get my antivirus fix for the latest CIA virus I am stuffed?

So people can't get in, or is it so America can't see out?

Ken Nakagama said:

"Not everyone is wrong, but not everyone is right. it is important consider that the text doesn't resolve a complete idea each time."

This is an important point for the process of communication and there might even be some rational standard for deciding whose speech is "right" and whose speech is "wrong," but it is still speech. All speech must be protected. Even libelous fighting words have a right to be out there. Homer Simpson says, "It takes two people to lie; one to lie and one to listen." Even hate speech takes someone to act upon it before it is harmful. It is certain actions, not certain words that need to be restricted. Let Rush Limbaugh "speak until empty" as the Buddhists say, then we can help him.

Interesting story here. Tim Bolen does appear to be attacking this guy pretty virulently, but the fellow he's attacking is definitely over-reacting by suing anyone and anything that has to do with Tim Bolen. See his 'side' of the story at:

http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/bolen.html

Bottom line on this is the EFF and ACLU are doing the right thing. I have no doubt that being attacked and having your reputation dragged through the mud as appears to have happened to this fellow, Stephen Barrett, is no fun. But it's also part of life. He went after Bolin and his clients with his quackbusters.com site. Bolin retaliated. More than he might have, had he thought it through, but he did nonetheless.

This is a classic mud slinging fight between a couple of egos that's gotten out of hand in the courts. It's a shame that it's gotten to the point where free speech is even slightly at risk.

However, this IS part of the process. We knew that the internet would create these kind of questions. Remember Disintermediation (pre-bubble burst speak)? It is real. It displaces existing flows of communication and allows information to flow more freely. Even if the information, in one persons opinion or another, is bad, wrong or libelous. A lot of things changed when it comes to information distribution, as you all well know and a lot of people don't know how to deal with it in any way other than the courts.

Side note: Apple suing the Think Secret blog site is another good example of this. Stranger still since the blog is maintained by a non-Apple person, is populated with 'rumor', is pro Apple and creates substantial positive Apple buzz. Some people (and companies) just don't get it.

To me, this is an example of how we test our beliefs on things like free speech. If we deserve it, our system will agree with the EFF and ACLU's friend of the court filing and throw out the case, setting precedent protecting the right of people to say what they're thinking and pass on thoughts of others they think are valid.

I, personally, have faith in the system. At least to a degree. But not so much that we shouldn't watch this very carefully and, if need be, jump in if, for some strange reason, the system breaks and we take a step backward towards the old McCarthy era of ideological witch-hunting.

Legal disclaimer: All of the above is 'in my personal opinion'. ;-)

Scott

I just read this today - and realized - what a small world -

This Tim Bolen is supposedly the PR person for Hulda Clark. Now Hulda Clark was supposed to be an associate of Gill Hope - who appeared briefly on this network to promote her foundation and company, which apparently had gotten billions dollars in fund, and her book "Hope on Africa" supposedly has a foreword written by Bill Gates.

Truth can be sometimes be indeed stranger than fiction ..

I am one of the plaintiffs against Tim Bolen, Hulda Clark, et. al.

Details about why I am involved:

http://www.healthwatcher.net/Quackerywatch/Hulda_Clark/index.html

http://www.healthwatcher.net/Quackerywatch/Hulda_Clark/index.html#rosenthal

http://www.healthwatcher.net/Quackerywatch/Hulda_Clark/Rosenthal/index.html

http://www.healthwatcher.net/Quackerywatch/Hulda_Clark/Bolen/index.html

If any of you would like to contact me privately please do.

The lawsuit against Ilena Rosenthal is in the California Supreme Court. I assure you that the ACLU of Northern California and the EFF would defend people like Dr. Mengele, or Jack the Ripper if they were still alive today. While Ilena Rosenthal isn't in that category she has made my life a living hell because of her defamation and libel.

So, if you think this is a bunch of nonsense and just a minor annoyance to my life, guess again.

Just put her name in Google and take a look at her thousands of posts over the last few years and put it all in perspective.

Those of you who have been defamed on the internet should not jump to the defence of those who are being sued. Go to the lawsuit and read it all.

http://www.lclark.edu/faculty/loren/objects/barrett.pdf

The point that is missed by most is that Polevoy has been slinging muck in the form lies, libel, defamation, fraud, misrepresentation, vexacious complaints, and vitriolic posts throughout internet for the better part of 10 years. If in fact his mission were to bring more sense and honesty to medicine, he would use tactics compatible to that mission. His tactics are dishonest and often criminal. He stalks and criminally harsses his prey. Polevoy conspires with equally disturbed individuals whose anti-competitive practices are currently the subject of compalint and investigation in Canada, the US and Australia.

Polevoy has a past that includes criminal harassment, stalking and child molestation: qualifications for a sociopath not a "healthcare quackbuster".

Terry Polevoy said:

I am one of the plaintiffs against Tim Bolen, Hulda Clark, et. al.

Details about why I am involved:

http://www.healthwatcher.net/Quackerywatch/Hulda_Clark/index.html

http://www.healthwatcher.net/Quackerywatch/Hulda_Clark/index.html#rosenthal

http://www.healthwatcher.net/Quackerywatch/Hulda_Clark/Rosenthal/index.html

http://www.healthwatcher.net/Quackerywatch/Hulda_Clark/Bolen/index.html

If any of you would like to contact me privately please do.

The lawsuit against Ilena Rosenthal is in the California Supreme Court. I assure you that the ACLU of Northern California and the EFF would defend people like Dr. Mengele, or Jack the Ripper if they were still alive today. While Ilena Rosenthal isn't in that category she has made my life a living hell because of her defamation and libel.

So, if you think this is a bunch of nonsense and just a minor annoyance to my life, guess again.

Just put her name in Google and take a look at her thousands of posts over the last few years and put it all in perspective.

Those of you who have been defamed on the internet should not jump to the defence of those who are being sued. Go to the lawsuit and read it all.

http://www.lclark.edu/faculty/loren/objects/barrett.pdf

Mister Polevoy:

There are some places where you should not be. This is one of those places. Your internet record and communications suggest you are an odious little man, if not criminal. Go away.

Thank You.

Pierre Omidyar said:

Just saw this on EFF:

Libel Case Could Chill Speech Online

California - Last week the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) and the American Civil Liberties Union of Northern California (ACLU) filed a friend-of-the-court brief in a case that could undermine a federal statute protecting the free speech of bloggers, Internet service providers, and other individuals who use the Internet to post content written by others. The case in question is a libel suit filed against women's health advocate Illena Rosenthal after she posted a controversial opinion piece on a Usenet news group. The piece was written not by Rosenthal, but by Tim Bolen, a critic of plaintiff Terry Polevoy.

If simply quoting or referencing the statements of another person can be construed as libel, thereby treating you as if you were the original author of the statements, that would be bad.

Have there been new developments in this case? Or is it gathering dust on somebodies desk?

I really appreciate Pierre posting this.

I am the defendant, Ilena Rosenthal, mentioned in this action.

I have already prevailed both at the Superior Court and at the Appeals levels for two of the 3 plaintiffs.

The Judges ruled that there was not even one questionally 'libelous' thing I ever posted about Steve Barrett, who sued several people for reposting another's opinion piece about him. He's known now as "Dr Sues" as suing his critics and those of his sponsors is common practice of his and his groups, aka The Healthfrauds.

Regarding another plaintiff, Christopher Grell, also the attorney for the plaintiffs, I had never even mentioned his name, nor did I know who he was until he SLAPP sued me for being in conspiracy with people I've never even met.

Concurrently to suing me ... they have unleashed a defamation campaign against me that may be unparalleled because of the ability to hide behind aliases on the internet.

I will discuss more about Terry Polevoy ... the third plaintiff, who I see posted his whiney, "Ilena is making my life a living hell" here too.

What is funny ... he had a whole blog on this ... with his very skewed version of reality on it ... and just nuked it after Mr. Bolen (another defendant) and I defended ourselves.

Here's some of what is going on ...

www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/quackbustersvsilena.htm

The case is in the California Supreme Court currently regarding one comment I reposted about Polevoy (aka Vera Teasdale).

Thanks for your interest ...

Ilena Rosenthal www.BreastImplantAwareness.org

Ilena, best wishes and I hope you are getting this one in your favour as well.

Thank you so much ... I will be updating y'all as events are changing ...

www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/quackbustersvsilena.htm

News Flash:

While Polevoy has distracted (obsessed) his greatness with the case in California that he can't possibly win, angry Canadians who have been victimized by Polevoy's 10 year campaign of hate, disinformation, lies, libel and defamation have side-swiped the poor dumb man. A class action suit has been approved with no less than 200 complainants.

In the meantime, many of the complainants in this new action are offering to testify in the Rosenthal matter. Regardless of how this may fall out, it's a great day when lunatics like Polevoy get a taste of their own medicine.

News Flash May 2006: Polevoy web(hate)sites are unilaterally shut down by a ISP's. Polevoy and his antics are considered untenable.

His regulating body, the CPSO, has censured Polevoy.

News Flash May 2006: Polevoy web(hate)sites are unilaterally shut down by a number ISP's. Polevoy and his antics are considered untenable.

His regulating body, the CPSO, has censured Polevoy.

Thanks for all the comments.

This week the Supreme Court of California in San Francisco heard Oral Arguments in this case.

http://www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/QuackbustersvsIlena.htm

http://www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/Polevoy.htm

One comical thing about this 6 years of hell ... the day after the hearing, Polevoy donned yet another disguise to attack me online and promote his own self!

Ilena, your last sentence interested me greatly, as my years of hell may only just be beginning. In something aimed at me and my business right now, the "Whisleblower" constantly asserts that he has the right to remain anonymous.

I know who it but cannot expose his identity it seems. Can it ever reach the point that I have a right to know the accuser?

Meanwhile, as the world tilts a little toward the concept of social purpose business, here's one man's effort to undo everything we've been working toward.

http://www.p-ced.blogspot.com/

"Well, the Lone Ranger and Tonto

They are ridin' down the line

Fixin' ev'rybody's troubles

Ev'rybody's 'cept mine

Somebody musta tol' 'em

That I was doin' fine. "

Bob Dylan