RicHARD ~The Anointed One~ Makepeace (CCAL30) (2360)
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Drives-by Builds Community: Or Living Up to the Grimes "Reputation Points" Legend (GRPL) (About 1200 words)
Posted to: RicHARD ~The Anointed One~ Makepeace (CCAL30) (2360) by RicHARD ~The Anointed One~ Makepeace (CCAL30) (2360), Thu, 29 Mar 2007 08:18:37 PST
Edited: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 17:36:58 PST
Feedback score: 5 (* * * * *)
Comments: 31 by 7 members
Viewed: 194 times by 27 members
Since personalizing Mark's comment about Drives-byes here at p'omidyar, I’ve been thinking about community -- A LOT!!
I am like a dog sucking marrow from a bone when I get an idea. We used to have a class of people called “intellectuals” with a sub-class called “philosophers.” This, now lost, class of folks, used to think about things. You know, back when thinking wasn’t WRONG.
Even lower than intellectuals and philosophers, we had, and fortunately still have, an almost completely useless, alien, nearly subhuman group called “writers.”
Most folks would agree that intellectuals, writers and other academic-social trash are not as important to building community as healers, plumbers and fellas who make the traffic lights work. I don’t think this is true and respectfully disagree.
All my life, I have been filled with wonder.
I do not know whether or not, I remember my first trip to the store, but I do remember the first time I remember being in the store and being completely gripped by the shiny talons of wonder and awe: Not to mention Amerikan consumerist brainwashing. Like a skinny, blond magpie, overwhelmed by odors and sounds and the thousands of shiny objects that even then comprised an American shopping experience, joy and delight slowly crept over me. That astounding moment, and millions and millions of others, has never left me. They are wrapped up in my brain like gin-soaked cotton.
Memory, conscious and unconscious, guides, but does not dictate.
The World is a very astounding place.
What does any of that have to do with Drives-by Builds Community?
Before I finally got free of my parents' clutches, at fifteen, I attended seventeen different schools. That doesn’t sound like too many: Seventeen in ten years of school, a couple each year. No problem. The ratio of schools to years grows when I add in attending grades one through three and the first five weeks of fourth grade at the same school: Miller Elementary, where I met the legendary Mrs. Eva Hard. With that addition the number of schools-to-years ratio changes to sixteen schools in six years. A ratio like that represents a whirlwind of movement that is fairly common to many kids in Amerika, even today.
It is common for migrant children and other children of the poor to go to many different skols during their confinement within OUR educational system. In Uh-mare-ree-kay, this is thought to be better than many places where kids get no education at all.
MY parents were not migrants, nor were they exceedingly poor. MY parents were penny-ante, grifters and smalltime con-artists. So was I. By the time I was seven or eight, I could take advantage of most adults, and ALL inebriated adults.
I grew up in bars and poolrooms and in the back seat of various automobiles. MY favorite being a 1959 Nash Rambler.
My family moved to shake down various charitable organizations and others of compassion and good will. We moved to avoid being jailed. We moved thinking that a different place would solve all our problems.
MY childhood was a very astounding place. I did not form regular habits as a child and I do not have them now. MY upbringing was probably different from YOURS.
That’s a GOOD thing.
What does any of that have to do with building community.
Showing up every day at a new skol, or anywhere else, that a whole group of people have a set of rules, habits, customs and practices teaches a skill set that most sedentary, habituated people never have to encounter. When the first day of skol can be every day, or any day, one’s world view is changed and not always for the better.
Even the idea that one set of social skills is BETTER than another set when both have good and bad parts illustrates a cultural bias toward people who live in one place and who go to school and work every day. The cultural bias WE have for the ordinary and the regular is also a bias here at p’omidyar where middle-class values, language and thought rigidly predominate.
The idea of what constitutes GOOD and valuable behavior here at p’omidyar is exactly the same, for the most part, as the dominant values, language and thought that prevails in our culture at large. The same predominantly middle-class cultural bias that exists at large in America prevails here. We will not change our culture until we change our biases.
According to the social conventions, and the popular wisdom here at p'omidyar, regularity in participation and contribution, and the physical expressions of regularity, the habits of middle-class people, are more important and more meaningful in building community than the habits of those who are not middle-class.
I do not believe the above bias to be true: Whether a jackass, or a genius tells you that your house is on fire doesn’t matter unless you stubbornly insist on ignoring the fire.
Einstein said, "Problems cannot be solved at the same level of consciousness that created them." I declare and assert that I am someone who is constantly challenging the status quo and raising human consciousness: Both here and in meat-space.
I agree with Mark that “Action Jackson, moving things from theory and talk into reality” is critically important, but I would caution as Hemingway did to “Never mistake motion for action.”
I would also offer that much that looks like it is only “theory and talk” is in many ways more adaptive, more supportive, and active than much of what WE call “reality,” or certainly, what we would call, ineffective action. With so many active people, why don't we have peace, better schools, or gay marriage? Because most so-called, action is ineffective movement.
Ask Norbert!
I am not just talking about cheerleaders and therapists here, though most of the folks on this board need both, rather glaringly. I am not just talking about those among us, writers, philosophers and other intellectuals, who work to redirect our thought and who bring sunlight and water to help new ways of thinking unfold and blossom. I am not just talking about pompous windbags like myself who only finger-point and pontificate.
I’m talking about ALL those here, and out in meat-space, who move and learn slowly, who need to be cultivated and encouraged, who need to know that someone trustworthy and patient is gonna be there for them when they flop: When they say, or do, something incredibly stupid, or just innocently step outside the lines of the terrifically narrow, rigidly enforced, middle-class social mores that we all have to deal with at p'omidyar and in meat-space.
Finally, I am talking about those who see the World differently and who have the self-esteem and the courage and the Power to stand up and say, “Hey, what about this . . .?” Or even: “What the fuck?”
They also serve, who only sit and wonder. Or complain.
I contend that I carry a very important message here at p’omidyar AND in meat-space. I hold that I have supported and helped countless people and projects here. I declare that anytime, anyone at p'omidyar has asked me for ANY help, not related to speech, that I have given MY assistance freely and cheerfully. I hold NO grudges.
I also assert that participation in seemingly useless strings here like Word Association, once upon a time and What Are You Reading at the Moment, that look like time-wasters, are important too, at least in the sense of, All Work and No Play makes for dullness.
I invite ALL of YOU who support me and who feel supported and loved by ME to contribute to this string because I do think that I am worthy enough to be one of Mark's 250 point persons. I am. I am. I am!
I know that I am good enough to be a 100 point person. I mean, at least, a 25 point person, wouldn't ya think? Please help me? Circulate a petition, have a demonstration, occupy Mark's home, for Christ's sake, I just can't take it. Please, please help me!
Comments page 1
By nmw (1876), Thu, 29 Mar 2007 10:27:31 PST
Edited: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 10:28:12 PST
Comment feedback score: 0
Well, RicH -- you are influencing me with your hocus-pocus mumbo-jumbo (Ted does that sometimes, too).
I'm gonna have to think this over a bit longer -- I've come up with an idea, but I have no idea whether it will actually increase the world wide gross whatever. Let me think about it some more, and if it's worthy of being posted, then I'll share it (freely, no less! ;)
:D nmw
By nmw (1876), Thu, 29 Mar 2007 11:49:44 PST
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By Mark Grimes (4111), Thu, 29 Mar 2007 15:35:59 PST
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RicHARD, I like a good powerful “What the fuck?” as often as I can get one, it opens the eyes, warms the soul and clears the nasal passages. Now the GRPL or MOPP or Mott the Hoople is only trying to get down and transparent with sharing numbers (which are open and transparent to begin with, just not all in one place). Above all else I'm trying to let the two bigger numbers 100 and 250 tie into something meaning real collaborative effort. So when and if we fine something really worth a good collaboration, 100 points it shall be. But my 100 points meaning "one collaborative event" is another person's 100 points meaning "people that make me giggle."
In the meantime, here's a book I've enjoyed in years past and think you would too...
Fuck, Yes!: A Guide to the Happy Acceptance of Everything (Paperback)
By RicHARD ~The Anointed One~ Makepeace (CCAL30) (2360), Thu, 29 Mar 2007 17:25:11 PST
Comment feedback score: 0
nmw said:
RicH,
as I was greedily sucking up the knowledge in that post I came up against a road block:
Ask Norbert!RicH, I was in the middle of learning something -- and then you go and give me a blue screen?!? ;D
Oh, Norbert, Norbert, Norbert!
What will I ever do with you? I'm just hoping that our diverse view is in the end just going to be due to language, and other cultural differences.
MY: "Just ask Norbert!" in the context above is a devote compliment and not meant as any sort of roadblock. I grant you that it is meant in some jest, but MY comment is a genuinely sincere proclamation bordering upon prayer.
One of MY fondest sayings is: Tell it to a Marine! When there is no conversation left, and all else has failed, then it is time to ask a Marine. When a story, or even life itself is just TOO unbelievable, it's time to tell it to a Marine. I know ALL this because I'm really smart, even IF the only person who ever says so is ME. Besides, I knew a Marine once.
I meant MY: "Just ask Norbert!" as an invocation of the same high order as "Ask a Marine." No harm: No foul intended.
By nmw (1876), Thu, 29 Mar 2007 21:43:24 PST
Comment feedback score: 0
Thanks, Rich -- and no, I didn't take it that way either. I just didn't want my tangential meanderings to take the thread off-topic, so I linked on over.
Now I've rolled outa bed and when I've said a little bit more I hope you'll come over!
;D nmw
By RicHARD ~The Anointed One~ Makepeace (CCAL30) (2360), Fri, 30 Mar 2007 05:43:28 PST
Comment feedback score: 0
On my way! Went and briefly looked at the links. Very interesting. Believe it or not, I never saw the Pink video. Real men and X-Marines have lots of problems with the Pink thing. I did think that the link about "Who the hell are you?" was quite interesting even though my German is confined to war movies and comments about bread.
I think that whole idea of production as worth needs looking at. All the men and women in my family and class have been working themselves literally to death producing for someone else for very little return for the last hundred years or so. I guess Lenin, or was it Lennon, was right: A Working Class Hero is Something to Be!
By RicHARD ~The Anointed One~ Makepeace (CCAL30) (2360), Fri, 30 Mar 2007 05:56:03 PST
Comment feedback score: 0
Mark Grimes said:
Now the GRPL or MOPP or Mott the Hoople is only trying to get down and transparent with sharing numbers (which are open and transparent to begin with, just not all in one place). Above all else I'm trying to let the two bigger numbers 100 and 250 tie into something meaning real collaborative effort. So when and if we fine something really worth a good collaboration, 100 points it shall be. But my 100 points meaning "one collaborative event" is another person's 100 points meaning "people that make me giggle."
Alright, Mark. I slept on your proposal and I have decided that you are correct: 100 and 250 point bonuses ought to be reserved in your system for those who are actively changing the world through open, interpersonal social cooperation. Even teaching cooperation here and in meat-space is not the same thing.
But what about twenty-five points. Aren't I even a 25-point person? Am I really so worthless? Am I, like Bo Derek, only a 10?
I don't think so.
I carried my country's banner over the ramparts; I floss; I pet small animals and children. When I think of it, I even use politically-correct speech.
Just what do I have to do to earn your approval, Man?
By nmw (1876), Fri, 30 Mar 2007 06:15:38 PST
Edited: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 06:17:35 PST
Comment feedback score: 5 (* * * * *)
What does it matter?
Do what you want, and if it makes Mark happy to give you points, then he'll give you points. Forget jumping through hoops.
I'm wondering if you might be interested in building more collaboratively (than blogging here in your personal space). I think you could make great contributions over at Collaborative Project Designs - Designing Collaborative Software / Projects -- and Ted and I will definitely be there to help you out if/when you need it!
:D nmw
[ps: I think we could even change the focus a little, if you feel the current focus doesn't work for you]
By Mark Grimes (4111), Fri, 30 Mar 2007 06:28:32 PST
Comment feedback score: 5 (* * * * *)
>>But what about twenty-five points. Aren't I even a 25-point person? Am I really so worthless?<<
10 is not worthless, 10 is 10. Jeepers and all that, until two days ago I had only given my own wife 10 points, and we've had a lot of collaboration in 24 years. And you've already got my approval...not that I think you should want it. The people that I do not feel I realy connect with here...well, they have zero points...easy enough.
>>Do what you want, and if it makes Mark happy to give you points, then he'll give you points. Forget jumping through hoops.<<
I gotta agree. I just shared the whole point thing as how I spend them and what that really means to me after 2.5 years...not as any kind of goal for anyone.
By nmw (1876), Fri, 30 Mar 2007 06:32:31 PST
Comment feedback score: 0
Mark Grimes said:
we've had a lot of collaboration in 24 years.
Mark,
I'd be interested to hear some more about this.......
;P nmw
By Mark Grimes (4111), Fri, 30 Mar 2007 06:48:25 PST
Comment feedback score: 1 (*)
Just the general sense of a good relationship, marriage and partnership. We have worked together directly in a couple of our business efforts, and even when not she is a trusted advisor with valuable input. Equals in marriage in the true sense of day to day big and small decisions, raising kids, financial, education, etc.
By nmw (1876), Fri, 30 Mar 2007 07:07:25 PST
Comment feedback score: 0
By Jean Russell (CCAL30) (3614), Fri, 30 Mar 2007 07:09:45 PST
Comment feedback score: 0
Thanks for the inspiration today. I really enjoy what the three of you contribute though you each do it in such different ways. RicHARD, I can't wait to meet you!!!!
By RicHARD ~The Anointed One~ Makepeace (CCAL30) (2360), Fri, 30 Mar 2007 10:15:51 PST
Comment feedback score: 0
Mark Grimes said:
>>But what about twenty-five points. Aren't I even a 25-point person? Am I really so worthless?<<
10 is not worthless, 10 is 10. Jeepers and all that, until two days ago I had only given my own wife 10 points, and we've had a lot of collaboration in 24 years.
Yeah, I know about this situation. My Missus was grousing that I wouldn't give her my grandmother's recipes after only fifteen years; I figger ya got to show your loyalty and staying power first. Thankx for reassuring me that 10 is not worthless. I feel lots better. ;-0
I just shared the whole point thing as how I spend them and what that really means to me after 2.5 years...not as any kind of goal for anyone.
But a guy HAS to have some kinda goal, Buddy.
By RicHARD ~The Anointed One~ Makepeace (CCAL30) (2360), Fri, 30 Mar 2007 10:16:23 PST
Comment feedback score: 0
nmw said:
Mark Grimes said:
we've had a lot of collaboration in 24 years.Mark,
I'd be interested to hear some more about this.......
;P nmw
I wanna see the video tape.
By RicHARD ~The Anointed One~ Makepeace (CCAL30) (2360), Fri, 30 Mar 2007 10:19:12 PST
Comment feedback score: 0
Jean ~Nurture Girl~ Russell said:
Thanks for the inspiration today. I really enjoy what the three of you contribute though you each do it in such different ways. RicHARD, I can't wait to meet you!!!!
Tell Mark, Jean! Go sit in front of his house with a sign.
Are fifteen little points too much to contribute? I wanna BE somebody. Where's Jesse Jackson when ya really need him?
By Jean Russell (CCAL30) (3614), Fri, 30 Mar 2007 10:33:02 PST
Comment feedback score: 0
So the 31 I have given you don't mean anything?
I put my points on the lawn. I mean the profile.
Why are you giving Mark a (Ric)HARD time?
By nmw (1876), Fri, 30 Mar 2007 11:12:13 PST
Comment feedback score: 0
Well, 31 is more than order of magnitude more than what I've given him, Jean.
RicHARD has given me so much feedback, it almost gives me a guilty conscience. But RicH, I want people to collaborate -- I want them to make good things happen. That -- collaboration, or even just collaborative effort -- is what I want to "reward" with my feedback. So if you want more feedback from me you'll have to get outside of "personal news" more!
;D nmw
By Mark Grimes (4111), Fri, 30 Mar 2007 11:16:37 PST
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Ya already are somebody. Somebody great. My points don’t anoint you into anything more (or less) special than you already are. But dude you’re a tough soldier of fortune street cred loaded standing up for the folks crazy assed Tony Robbins meets G. Gordon Libby straight-up motherf#cker. Now when I look at my point code key (so to speak) ya probably are more of a 25 point person in my book...but still you are in some great company when you look at many of the other 10 point people. In any event, people tend to get what they focus on.
OK, you have your 25 points, now fly like an eagle.
By RicHARD ~The Anointed One~ Makepeace (CCAL30) (2360), Sun, 01 Apr 2007 16:36:40 PDT
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Jean ~Nurture Girl~ Russell said:
So the 31 I have given you don't mean anything?
I put my points on the lawn. I mean the profile.
Why are you giving Mark a (Ric)HARD time?
Why, Jean?!? I am pleased as punch and very flattered that you have given me thirty-one points.
I do not feel worthy of so much nurturing love. And IF I ever come by your house, I'm gonna put a sign on your lawn.
I wanna stress that MY intent is not to give Mark a hard time, for any reason; I'm not feeling that Mark was taking my tantrum personal, or interpreting my explanation of those who drive-by as anything other than the opinion of someone, I hope, he still considers a good friend.
I'm not even questioning Mark's, or Norbert's process for giving points. I truly don't care that much about the points at all, outside of being pleased and flattered for the attention, especially from new people on the board.
My goal is to persuade Mark, and Norbert, since he's decided to rescue Mark, who needs no rescue, certainly not from me, that people who are not actively collaborating in a traditional sense are also working hard to make p'omidyar, and our society in meat-space better: In form and in function, if not always in tone.
I'll bet even money that a fair share of the people who have collaborated here with others have had encouragement and guidance from those of US who only make a difference here through "thoughtful talking, meaningful writing and active listening." I propose, since most of my time is spent in those modalities, that "thoughtful talking, meaningful writing and active listening" are critically important forms of collaboration that lead to more direct action.
IF Mark thinks I'm giving him any type of hard time, I am ready to humbly apologize because that was not MY goal.
Thankx for continuing to nurture the three of US.
By RicHARD ~The Anointed One~ Makepeace (CCAL30) (2360), Sun, 01 Apr 2007 17:23:15 PDT
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Woo-hoo!! I am sooo happy, but I am torn, for the first time at p'omidyar between sending you an IM and writing openly. This post is kinda personal, but only in its tone, not its content. It's meant for you, Mark, but it is universal because it is pertinent to all of US who disagree for whatever the reason, and struggle, and remain friends:
I understand having a system and sticking to that system, but to me flexibility is the measure of any system. I don't want my rifle to just fire; I want my rifle to fire underwater and half full of mud. The same with my systems.
I have been two days gone at a training seminar for something called The Alternatives to Violence Project (AVP). Mark, you may remember my description of AVP from Portland last year. AVP teaches non-violent change and action.
AVP is hyper-flexible. Every action is built around the idea of a bigger, constantly-enlarging, ever more inclusive circle which will one day be a planetary community that includes US all in peaceful society.
The thing I like best about AVP is that it works. People change their lives and help Others to change. I consider every moment spent at AVP worthwhile time.
MY feelings about p'omidyar are close to what I feel for AVP. I know that I am in good company here, whether I have ten points or two hundred. Points are not the measure of what is important here; just as dollars, gold and other trinkets are not an important measure in meat-space.
I know that YOU, personally hold me in high esteem; YOU have personally, told me so in a personal believable way. YOU are someone who I trust and depend upon. I also know that you are someone with whom I could openly have this pointed conversation without personalizing or projecting.
I do not know who will come here and read this discussion, but I do know that discussions about points are ones that many people at p'omidyar need to have in various ways.
The point system, here, like at eBay and Amazon creates artificial value that when attached to services is understandable as a measure. When the same system is applied to social interactions, services and people it is distorted by values, ideals and mores becoming no more important than dollars, gold and trinkets.
I actually think that attaching points to personal actions like collaboration is a good thing. I like Jean's idea of putting points on the front lawn as a way of saying this is someone I care about and choose to nurture. I give a lot of my points to favorites, like you and Norbert, but the greater part I give to newcomers.
Recently I have become more interested in points because I realized that I want to give several people here large numbers of points and I don't know how to do that because I've been here all this time and I don't really understand how points work.
Realizing that I didn't even know how points worked, or how to start a string led me to question more deeply why I am involved here at all and how much effort I am exerting to serve those I love and respect at p'omidyar.
At AVP, I will spend an entire weekend in a prison, working like a dog and bending over backward to put forward the ideals of that fellowship for those I love and respect.
Now . . . I am asking myself, "Am I ready to do the same for those at p'omidyar?"
All of this commotion really began with your "drives-by" quote that I couldn't find again. I think that much progress from ME, for only a coupla weeks is pretty damned good. I'm not sorry to have used you as MY foil because I knew you could stand the test and that OUR friendship would not be endangered.
Besides, the public flogging will do you good every once in a while.
YOU know I love you, RicHie
By Michele -> kids+art+charity (CCAL30) (1010), Sun, 01 Apr 2007 19:06:57 PDT
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shut UP!!! You are not blond! (smirk) ;-)
>> Like a skinny, blond magpie, overwhelmed by odors and sounds and the thousands of shiny objects that even then comprised an American shopping experience, joy and delight slowly crept over me.<<
Rich, I'm proud to know you and very glad for your presence here. Canton is going to be quite awesome, I suspect. I appreciate and respect you, for being true to yourself, for being an inspiration and for the way you carry yourself on o/net. And personally, I thank you for welcoming me here so warmly.
By RicHARD ~The Anointed One~ Makepeace (CCAL30) (2360), Sun, 01 Apr 2007 19:26:01 PDT
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Michele Lifshen Reing said:
shut UP!!! You are not blond! (smirk) ;-)
>> Like a skinny, blond magpie, overwhelmed by odors and sounds and the thousands of shiny objects that even then comprised an American shopping experience, joy and delight slowly crept over me.<<Rich, I'm proud to know you and very glad for your presence here. Canton is going to be quite awesome, I suspect. I appreciate and respect you, for being true to yourself, for being an inspiration and for the way you carry yourself on o/net. And personally, I thank you for welcoming me here so warmly.
Nothing to it, Dolly. YOU needed to be welcomed here! WE need YOU as well!! R
By nmw (1876), Mon, 02 Apr 2007 11:15:57 PDT
Comment feedback score: 0
RicHARD ~Drives-by~ Makepeace said:
I'll bet even money that a fair share of the people who have collaborated here with others have had encouragement and guidance from those of US who only make a difference here through "thoughtful talking, meaningful writing and active listening." I propose, since most of my time is spent in those modalities, that "thoughtful talking, meaningful writing and active listening" are critically important forms of collaboration that lead to more direct action.
To tell you the truth, RicHARD, I have so far felt very little collaboration on omidyar.net. I could name a list of people who were very enthusiastic about collaboration and/or who seemed to have great expertise at building collaborative tools (BTW, I feel language is the most collaborative tool there is). However, most of these people are rarely present on omidyar.net (and I don't know why -- as that would seem to me to be a rather presumptuous judgment to make).


By nmw (1876), Thu, 29 Mar 2007 09:12:44 PST
Comment feedback score: 5 (* * * * *)
RicH,
as I was greedily sucking up the knowledge in that post I came up against a road block:
RicH, I was in the middle of learning something -- and then you go and give me a blue screen?!? ;D
Now what is it that you think is undervalued? Your personal profile? This "personal news" item? Or how about your ego? That's what I think. I think you are pretty smart -- and I want you to use your smarts to improve yourself, your world, my world, omidyar.net's world -- heck, why not improve everything?!?
So the next time I give away a feedback point, I will think of you -- because I read your post and because it was (mostly [except for the "blue screen"]) inspiring!!
:D nmw