Linda ทรัพยากร Nowakowski (CCAL30) (2530)

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All of this is out of hand

Posted to: Linda ทรัพยากร Nowakowski (CCAL30) (2530) by Linda ทรัพยากร Nowakowski (CCAL30) (2530), Tue, 03 Apr 2007 07:40:55 PDT
Feedback score: 10 (* * * * * * * * * *)
Comments: 28 by 7 members
Viewed: 236 times by 39 members

Earlier today I posted a suggestion for onet regarding what I thought be a means of tagging groups so that they would be easier to find. Thomas asked me a question and I said that the real answer might come from nmw since he was the expert on such things but that he hadn't checked in yet.

A bit later Norbert posted to the thread and posted some links. He made a comment about if I wanted someone to participate in a discussion why didn't I just pm them. I thought he was reffering to the example that I had given in the post. looking at it now he probably meant that I should have pmed him to participate in that thread if I wanted him to. I didn't think it was necessary since I was sure he would find it when he got on. I was right.

Anyhow, I rent and checked out the links that he had and I didn't understand why they supported his statement that it wouldn't work. I asked again. I got ignored. So I pmed him the following message:

--- Linda "Blessed by Gulu!" Nowakowski wrote:

I didn't ask you to explain what was wrong with my idea to hear myself talk.

I thought that I made it clear that I didn't understand the material in your links.

What do I need to do to get an answer

He responded:

Linda,

due to your repeated and escalating remarks depicting me as a dubious character, I find that I no longer trust you. When you supported insinuating remarks make about me, I removed my positive feedback to your personal profile. Since then your criticism has persisted, and it has also remained unreasonable. I prefer to interact with you publicly, since there you can no longer hide your scathing remarks.

Thanks for trying to understand.

Norbert

I believe that the reference to supporting insinuating remarks goes Waaaaaaaaaaay back to something that Michael Maranda said that I (and a lot of other people) agreed with and gave positive feedback. (no negative feedback) ...I can't even find the frigging post... wish I could.

And...I am sorry, Norbert, but there are many times when I simply don't understand your posts. And when I say that I don't understand and you keep going and I feel like you are taunting me, I get upset. Why can't you believe that some people can not understand you

Now, regarding my repeated and escalating remarks about him being a dubious character. He might be referring to this post.

By Linda "Blessed by Gulu!" Nowakowski (2089), Mon, 02 Apr 2007 16:55:46 PDT

Comment feedback score: 11 (* * * * * * * * * *)

I think that some of us are talking past each other because we are looking at different definitions of negative feedback

Negative feedback: 1) any negative response to a comment or action, verbal, physical etc. 2) points with a - sign in front of them that are distributed on onet to demonstrate negative feedback (1).

Some people can tolerate and deal with negative feedback of either genre and others cannot. Some of those who can not deal with negative feedback can in fact deal with negative feedback if it is constructive. In order for feedback to be constructive, it must be owned.

I really appreciate Thomas reminding us of that.

As long as there is community, there will be negative feedback in one form or another. It certainly doesn't require intricate structures that cost money (like the onet software) to implement.

The main problem with the ability to administer anonymous negative feedback (which the onet software does enable in this particular community) is that it allows people to take potshots from a blind. That is not always a bad thing.

Not that I have done it but....lets say Norbert says something that just really pisses me off (not that he EVER has or would do that). A -1 on his comment might cool me down and keep me from chopping his head off. (not that that isn't a solution I have considered in the past.) IF Norbert isn't too thin skinned, he thinks about it briefly and lets it pass. Maybe though, after a month or so, he notices that each of those posts that have gotten negged were posts that had links to his commercial enterprises. Maybe he learns something.

Me, I would jump out there and very undiplomatically tell him that I am sick and tired of his self serving links and I would have a brouhaha that would generate maybe over 187 comments in less than a week with people calling other people names, threatening to leave because I am an inconsiderate bully.

On the other hand, if we just recognized that we only grown through mistakes. If we only ever say nice things and never disagree, then everyone is the worse off for it.

Maybe we should just look at anonymous negs as boos, moans or groans and quit running to "Mommy" saying "Jenny doesn't like my joke..."

Is there any one who sees that as character assassination (sorry .. I don't have a question mark key right now and am too tired to go find a QM to copy and paste here). If I meant all of that stuff we would have see the post somewhere here on onet where I jumped him for putting in those links.

I want to make a public apology to Norbert for believing that he had a sense of humor and and could understand the irony (2a).

irony

2 a : the use of words to express something other than and especially the opposite of the literal meaning b : a usually humorous or sardonic literary style or form characterized by irony c : an ironic expression or utterance

3 a (1) : incongruity between the actual result of a sequence of events and the normal or expected result (2) : an event or result marked by such incongruity b : incongruity between a situation developed in a drama and the accompanying words or actions that is understood by the audience but not by the characters in the play -- called also dramatic irony, tragic irony

Instead the entire situation has turned out ironic (3a).

So much for wit. I guess I have to stay straight. And, since he won't answer my question, I guess I have to stay stupid. Does this mean I can blame my stupidity on Norbert (QM)

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By Linda ทรัพยากร Nowakowski (CCAL30) (2530), Tue, 03 Apr 2007 08:45:55 PDT
Comment feedback score: 1 (*)

I don't believe I am still up.

I found the thread. I found the post. And then I found something interesting. That post that at one point had 58 points has but 1 now. How did it get there (QM) Norbert gave it 57 negative points which as far as I have seen so far (I am only up to post 552 in that thread) are totally undisclosed negatives.

I also found this which goes to show that at least I am consistent:

By Linda "Blessed by Gulu!" Nowakowski (2089), Mon, 19 Jun 2006 17:28:43 PDT

Comment feedback score: 34 (* * * * * * * * * *)

I made a decision last week after this outrageous incident to keep my discussion with Norbert in PM. And walk away from reading this discussion that was causing so much hurt everywhere.

I continued to speak to Norbert about this as regardless of what he perceives, I have valued Norbert, for what ever reason.

On Sunday he sent me a message that included this:

Thanks for your engagement -- it indicates to me that you care about me (and I find that to be a good feeling :).

And I care about you.

:) Norbert

This morning I wake up to find that I have received 7 negative points, one at a time, from Norbert for supporting insinuating remarks.

After wading through over an hour of posts to this thread I am ashamed. Ashamed in much the same way I am ashamed sometimes when I say I am American. Let me explain here so that no one misinterprets my metaphor. I am American. I am not even considering making a choice to not be American. However, there are some things about America that shame me: a stance by INS that regularly denies visas to poor people (or people that INS views as poor); her recent xenophobia; descrimination; arrogance yada, yada, yada. I love America because I think basically "She" has the right idea and I still believe it is possible to change back to those ideals. Yet, there is the embarassment of being proud and inviting people to visit only to open them to see all the dirty laundry (which everyone can see because of "freedom" in some conceptual domain). [Thais are invariably dumbfounded when they see movies and documentaries that show the ugly side of life in America - how can the goverment allow that?]

The same thing holds right now with ONet AND Norbert.

I have invited so many people to participate here because I love the ideals. But now they come and they see all the dirty laundry. And it all seems so childish. I don't believe that anyone here hates Norbert, or Michael, or Ravi, or Gerry or Debbie or me - well not yet - it may be getting close on some of these. I don't think that anyone is intentionally trying to cause anyone any pain. But how do we get past all of the posturing and say...enough...

Norbert and Ravi have frustrated me the same way that they have frustrated Michael. I supported Michael's post because he had the courage and the words to put voice to those frustrations. I feel that frustration more now than when I supported the post originally. Do I go back and give it more positive feedback and risk the revenge that is sure to follow?

Peacemaking is not my forte. But, I have the power to CHOSE this kind of anger or turn away from it. And I am right now making a choice not to participate in perpetuating it anymore. I will never convince Norbert that I don't see the point that he is crazed over. I am not sure that anyone will convince Ravi that some people see his style as abrasive and arrogant and only wish he would consider changing the style to enable him to more effectively communicate his concepts which he has obviously worked hard at developing.

Since I am not the person to do either of those things, I am out of this discussion, yet again. I CHOOSE not to allow this anger to ruin my day.

And you wonder why I am frustrated, Norbert(QM)

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Linda ทรัพยากร Nowakowski (CCAL30) (2530)

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